Good stuff Shaun…  thanks.  Yeah… long entries are fun…   anywho…

Crackers… as far as that spinning class goes… … yeah… that’s kinda far fetched… HAHAHA… people like that would HATE my church!  We’d seem so evil to them I’m sure… check out our website if ya want… (CedarCreek)  All of our crazy multimedia and evil secular cover songs…   So anyway, as far as the eternal salvation thing goes, that’s a WHOLE new can of worms… although I DO agree with you…  I DON’T believe you can lose it… it’s eternal and unconditional… but as I said, I’d rather not start a discussion for that issue HERE…. this is long enough!  LOL… AND as far as holidays go… I’m all about celebrating them as everyone else does, but I keep in mind the focus of Christ… so with that, unless anyone has something profound to say…. I shall call this BLOG “dismissed!”  HAHAHA….  thanks for all your input everyone!

-Brent

The point is, if there were such a thing as a perfect church, none of us would qualify. Each denomination, each individual church, each person within that church, has his own flaws. We are imperfect beings trying to reflect a perfect Saviour. We’re going to make mistakes. In some cases, we will fall flat on our faces, with only the grace of God allowing us to get back on our feet.

So, while each church has its own flaws, find one that you can live with and get involved, recognizing that it is an imperfect organization of imperfect people.

Anyway, just wanted to throw a different spin on the salvation topic: that of eternal security. Let us suppose that salvation is, in fact, based on a combination of faith and works. If this is the case, it would seem reasonable to me that if my works don’t cut the mustard, then I can lose my salvation. However, Christ said that His sheep “know His voice” and He calls them by name, and that NO MAN can pluck them out of His hand. As I see it, that leaves no possibility for me to lose my salvation, even by anything I can do.

In the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit would come and go as the righteous worked for God. As a result, the OT saints never had the assurance that the Spirit would stay with them, hence Psalm 53 requesting that God not remove His Spirit from David… However, Christ stated that He would “never leave [us], nor forsake [us],” implying that either He or His Spirit would remain with us for the rest of our lives after salvation.

To clarify the difference between OT and NT, not to mention between periods in the OT, I am going to briefly include a survey of what some have called “dispensationalism.” This simply states that God has dealt with humanity in a number of different ways throughout the course of history. Does this mean that God changed? No. God does not change. He may appear to from our perspective, but our perspective is very limited. In fact, if we were to try to understand His perspective, it would be like someone explaining quantum physics to a gerbil. The only difference is that the gerbil really doesn’t give a rip about quantum physics…

Anyway, dispensations: Innocence, Conscience, Human government, Promise, Law, Church/Grace, Kingdom.

Innocence: in the garden of Eden, pre-fall. God dealt with man based on man’s innocence (Gen. 1-2).

Conscience: post-fall, pre-flood. Man was ruled by conscience; didn’t work, as man was focused on “only evil continually” Gen. 6:5 (Gen. 3-6).

Human government: post-flood. God worked with man through human government, also instituting capital punishment at this time (Gen. 9:6) (starting in Gen. 9).

Promise: God called Abraham to “a land I will show you.” (Gen. 12:1). This dispensation was selective, dealing strictly with Abraham and his descendents (Gen. 12-Ex. 20[?]).

Law: the best-known of this dispensation is the giving of the Ten Commandments at Mount Sinai, but this is only one portion of the law given to the children of Israel. The law is actually described in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. This dispensation was strictly for Jews and proselytes.

Grace: Enter Christ. His sacrifice was enough for us to no longer need animal sacrifices to cover our sins. This dispensation has also been called the “church age” and is available to anyone, including both Jew and Gentile.

Kingdom: After Christ returns to earth (still future), He will establish a kingdom on earth where He rules. Several prophetic books deal with this period, both in Old and New Testament books. This event is still in the future and will involve both Jews and Gentiles.

[End dispensational outline.]

While this suggests that God works with humans in different ways, this does not mean that God has changed or that He will change. It simply shows that, from our perspective, He’s doing things a bit differently. Again, for us to grasp this concept is about like a gerbil understanding quantum physics: I can’t say that I fully understand it either, but I know that it makes enough sense to me for me to believe it.

I wanted to address the topic of pagan elements of holidays, too. The meaning of Christmas is religious, otherwise there wouldn’t be so much of a push to eliminate Christmas concerts, etc. from public schools. That fat guy at the North Pole is a commercialization tool, but can still be a reminder of the true meaning of Christmas. While I do not endorse Santa, I do feel that he can be a reminder of the wise men, bearing precious gifts to Christ soon after His birth (it was not, as many believe, immediately after His birth). Christ wants us to bring Him the greatest gift we can give: ourselves. While a gift exchange may seem like a buy-in to all the commercialization of Christmas, it is not necessarily so. It can simply be an expression of our love for each other, reflecting Christ’s expression of love for us. As far as Easter, with all its candy, I have to say I do enjoy a lot of the candy, but I don’t connect that at all to my celebration of Easter. Easter is simply a time to remember Christ’s sacrifice and His victory over death.

We, as humans, tend to want to classify things neatly as right/wrong, godly/pagan, etc. Often, there is no easy answer to whether or not something is right or wrong, godly or pagan, spiritual or secular. Many times the answer is more clear when the attitude of the actor is examined, but even then what is evident on the outside may not reflect what is going on inside.

Nothing like adding a long comment to a long string of comments, huh? Hope this helps!

We do celebrate the holidays here, keeping God and giving to others our focus.  But lately it seems like Christians around here are just damning everything that even remotely has to do with anything pagan.  Some have even been offended by my recent hobby of spinning, because they say there are links to witchcraft in spinning threads and yarn! *sigh*  So you can see what I’m up against! Not to mention that I meditate daily! *gasp!*

Thanks again for taking the time to set me straight again.  Sometimes I just think too much, and lose my focus (which is Jesus)!

-Brent

Yeah… Christians (or any religious affiliated group) who act one way on sunday and differently the rest of the week are definitely NOT living out their faith.  They are hypocritical and are the source of 99.9% of athiesm in the world today.  People look at them and say, “they’re supposed to have a relationship with God… yet they don’t act any different than me… why bother….. obviously God isn’t real enough to make a difference in their lives, they’re only doing this to feel good about themselves… blah blah blah…” etc.  Personally I totally understand those remarks… I see hypocracy daily… Understand that I myself am NOT perfect… I screw up constantly.. But I will do all I can in my power to make people realize that this “Jesus thing” isn’t just a hobby.  This is a way of life.  Romans tells us we are to be “transformed by the renewing of our minds…” once we accept Christ.  2Cor. 5:17 says, “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!”  God DOES change our thoughts… our standards… but if we don’t commit ourselves wholeheartedly and LET HIM DO IT, he won’t.  God uses people who are willing.  ONLY people who are willing.  If God wanted to, he could make an entire army of drones who worhip him 24/7, but instead he gave us freewill… a choice… do we love him with our minds?  with our actions?  24/7 or just Sundays?  Those who DO act on this calling 24/7 are doing as God desires… those who don’t… well… they give Christianity a bad name….. They turn people away from God…. They hurt us all.

I’m sorry you have had such bad experiences with Christianity.  I hope you understand that those people who’ve shown you such hypocracy and duality of standards…. they aren’t serving my God the way He asks us to.  They’re looking for a spiritual Santa Claus that’ll give them what they want when they are in need without them ever inconveniencing themselves or stepping out on faith in the slightest.

SPEAKING of Santa Claus… on to point two… (lol… how’s that for a transition?)  RELIGIOUS HOLIDAYS!  OK… so the majority of holiday traditions originated from pagan holidays… TRUE.  But we (speaking from a Christian viewpoint) don’t have any reason to distance ourselves from them due to that!  As long as our mind and hearts are in alignment with God’s will and commands… we are in no way in the wrong.  Holidays are SO commercialized that it litteraly is pathetic.  When stores have easter stuff for sale in January… something is wrong… We have rabbits and eggs…. candy galore… for Jesus’ death and ressurection?  odd…. but ok… we chalk it up to consumerism and commercialism… When you celebrate Easter, where is your heart?  That is what matters…. are you tied up in the gifts you got for Christmas, or are you thankful for your community of friends, family, neighbors…. Are you thankful for Christ dying and giving us a second chance, or are you wondering where your chocolate rabbit is?  Nothing about holidays is “evil”…. but we must be sure we keep our focus on the reality of the event.

THIRD point… What are you?  Well… I don’t know you.  LOL…. But sources say you’re about 80% water like the rest of us… ok ok… seriously.  Whatever you choose to follow is your choice.  Understand I am coming from a Christian perspective.  I was raised in the Catholic church, but when I really started researching this stuff… I looked into Muslim, Catholicism, Buhdism, Christianity, Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses… just about anything you can think of…. I was curious what they believed….  Christianity is the only religion that uses the original Bible alone!  Every other religion utilizes their own versions, their own additions or books… it’s nuts.  I decided that I’d go with the source material before it was twisted by man… ANYWAY, my advice to you is to answer a few basic questions.  Do you believe the Bible is the word of God written to us long ago?  If not… look into some apoligetics studies… The facts of the Bible’s origin is INSANE.  Written by a lot of authors over HUNDREDS of years… never once contradicting itself…. by men who’ve never met… never talked to each other… it’s crazy.  ANYWAY, if you believe the Bible as fact, and you understand Jesus was the Son of God… that he died to bridge the gap between you and God… to be the final sacrifice to attone for our sins… If you’ve accepted that and understand that… and you ask God into your life… you say, “Hey God…. life sucks.  I want to see what you can do through me…. use me….. I accept that you died for me…. now live in my life and show me what you have for me…”  (give or take a few words… lol)  Then you are a Christian.  NOW HOLD UP…. Christian is a broad term…. we have Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist, Evangelical, Penticostal, etc…. ok ok… they all have their own quirks… own discrepencies in doctrine… but at the CORE, they believe Christ died for our sins and we can have a personal relationship with him…. the end.  They are all Christian.  Yes.  There are hypocrites… Yes… there is scandal… but what do you expect form a bunch of sinners coming together in mass numbers?????  It’s not justified… nor is it right.  But don’t let the “human” side of Christianity hinder you from seeking out God in your life.  Personally, I’m non-denominational.  I don’t side with any denomination of Christianity for this very reason… the small discrepencies aren’t worth fighting over…. we’ll find those answers when we are in heaven.

OK… last point…

And one more thing… when someone you know dies, and they are basically a good person, is the first question on your lips ‘did they recieve Jesus so they can get into heaven?’  No. You want to believe since they lived a good, moral, decent life, and that they were kind, and good, that they are in heaven with God, right?

Honestly…. no.  The sad Biblical truth is, that Salvation is through Christ alone.  Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life.  No one comes to the Father except through me.”  So no number of good works can get you into heaven if you don’t accept Christ as your savior on earth….   See…. Just because they lived a good life… doesn’t earn them the right to be in heaven with God…. God is SO PERFECT, that our pathetic attempts at being “good” can never earn our way there.  (enter Jesus here)  We tend to wishy washy our thoughts and HOPE they accepted Christ… we tend to not want to think of them being anywhere BUT heaven…. …. but the Bible is so clear on this topic that it isn’t even debateable….

Religion is simpler than we make it… we screw it up all the time… all it needs to be is a PERSONAL relationship with Christ… then a FELLOWSHIP of love and support for others…. the end.  But alas… we’re human….. that’s what we’re best at… defining our lives by suffering and misery…. by fighting… by being “better” that each other…. bah.

I hope this helps… I gotta run… thanks for posting and I hope to hear back soon.

-Brent

My basic creed is to do no harm!  I do good deeds and enjoy the good feeling it gives me.  I don’t go running about saying ‘I do this good stuff cause God will like it!’  I don’t understand what is so hard to understand about all of this religous stuff.  Why does the Bible have to come in and dictate all our moves, and be ripped to shreds to try and get our point across?

Since most of the church holidays and ideas are based in Pagan beliefs doesn’t that make us all still Pagan to some extent?  I’ve know Christians that have been head over heels about the Christmas season, but then as soon as they found out about the Pagan aspects of it, they totally dropped the holiday altogether!  And what about Easter?  The bunny’s the eggs?  All part of fertility rituals!  Some Christians try to act all high and mighty, but they do so much back stepping on their own words and deeds.  I just can’t see being a part of what they are.

Basically my question is, what am I?  I don’t think I belong in the Christian category, but I do believe in Jesus.  Friends have called me everything from Pagan to Buddist!  I don’t get all the hub bub.  Why do we have to be placed into a category based on our beliefs, and what if our beliefs meld with a different religion?  Then we are never truly accepted on either side, but some say we will still get into heaven and some say not!  But really it’s Gods call so why are we still going around and around with different people from different beliefs? 

And one more thing… when someone you know dies, and they are basically a good person, is the first question on your lips ‘did they recieve Jesus so they can get into heaven?’  No. You want to believe since they lived a good, moral, decent life, and that they were kind, and good, that they are in heaven with God, right? 

I think it’s all much simpler than we make it, but people just like to hide behind their faiths!  It’s like a buffer between them and the rest of the world.

Well, my head is spinning and the wee ones are begging for attention so I must run.  But I’d like to hear your thoughts either in e-mail or on here.  Will be checking back soon.

Best Wishes,

And as far as Satan… there is a difference between knowing God exists and trusting him as King… Satan knows he exists… but that’s not an issue of “faith.”  Hebrews 11:1 says, “Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.”  The point of it is that you don’t KNOW God’s there… but you trust and have faith in Him… THEN he reveals himself in ways we never expect.  (Sidenote:  I love 1Peter 1:8-9, “Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.”)Satan KNEW God existed… but got power hungry…. He thought he could overthrow God and thust God put the smack down on him and cast him down to earth… So…. no… Satan never had faith in God… He put his faith and trust in his own abilities…. and look where that got him…. …. … look where he’ll end up when Christ returns… forever… So if Satan has faith in himself alone…. where are his deeds focused?  In evil… in his own interests…. thus showing his faith in himself….

hmmm… interesting topic though… I never looked at it this way until now…. thanks for the questions!  You’re makin me learn!

-Brent

I can’t say that I disagree with your core point here.  Without Faith, there is no salvation.  With works alone, there is no salvation.  We are taught that you need Faith, and you need to act on that faith – or the faith isn’t really there ~Hence, the Faith and Works.  The thing is that Adam and Eve had perfect Faith in God, and Satan has faith in God, but their acts keep them from salvation.  I think between you and me This is an issue of semantics. 

Have a great day!